A Review of Holland America’s ms Zuiderdam

A photo of ms Zuiderdam in 2022 with text reading: A review of Holland America's ms Zuiderdam.

Have you ever slept with someone for 10 nights, but you still aren’t sure how to pronounce their name?  Zoy-der-dam?  Zoo-der-dam?  Zwee-der-dam?

(I should clarify that I’m a happily married woman, but who wouldn’t get seduced by a suitor willing to cook you 12 meals a day, clean your bathroom, and smile politely as you enthusiastically sing, overly loud and off-key, Whitney at the piano bar?)

Why my Cruise on ms Zuiderdam was Significant

In addition to being the first cruise ship I’ve been unable to pronounce (just call me “Dr.,” preceded by “this is what 9+ years of post-high school education bought you”), my 10-night sailing onboard Holland America’s ms Zuiderdam was significant for many other reasons:

ms Zuiderdam Returns to Service!

This was ms Zuiderdam’s return to service sailing following the pandemic.  Arriving at the terminal 3 hours before sunrise paid off in that we scored front row seats to the ribbon cutting ceremony and the crew cheered for us as we boarded:

For a minute there I thought maybe my blog had finally taken off – I felt like a celebrity!  But it turns out they were cheering for everyone.  Oh well, you’re here reading, and you’re the only one who really matters, right?

Mr. Cruise and H Return to Cruising

A child and an adult doing a "cheers" in the main dining room onboard ms Zuiderdam.

This was also my husband and son’s return to cruising.  While I’d been on three post-pandemic cruises already (one of those with my mom who was also with us on the Zuiderdam), my son hadn’t been able to cruise until he was eligible to be vaccinated and my husband had to stay home so we wouldn’t get arrested for abandoning our son to cruise (which isn’t to say that it never crossed our minds during those long days of lockdowns and virtual school).  So Mr. Cruise and H were excited to be cruising again and I was excited to be back together cruising as a family!

Mr. Cruise tries Holland America

This was Mr. Cruise’s first Holland America ship.  My mom, son, and I have cruised HAL before and enjoyed rubbing in how great it was.  I guess we’ll just have to try Disney (the only non-luxury line we haven’t sailed yet) and wear Mickey ears for like 6 months after to taunt him.

Celebrate!

We celebrated two holidays (Christmas and New Year’s) and my son’s 9th birthday onboard. I thought we should stay on to celebrate Valentine’s Day and Easter and Halloween and Thanksgiving, but was reminded by security that we’d only paid for 10 nights.

A child smiling with a birthday cake in front of him onboard the Zuiderdam in 2022.
Santa Clause on the main theater of ms Zuiderdam.

Speaking of security…

A Security Incident

Created by yours truly. This cruise marked the first time I had something confiscated by ship security. You can read all about it in my article: What Kind if Idiot Brings a Skateboard on a Cruise Ship? Here’s a clue:

Prof Cruise holding a skateboard and pointing at herself in her stateroom onboard the Zuiderdam in 2022.

A Rare Itinerary

A listing of all the stops on the Sea of Cortez itinerary of ms Zuiderdam.

Our 10-night Sea of Cortez itinerary is only offered by Holland America once a year and some of our specific ports even less often than that. I fear that, in those places we visited that are not used to cruise ship passengers, I may have created an unfavorable impression with my poor attempt to haggle in Spanish, “te doy 100 pesos por eso.” “Okay ma’am, but the list price is only 20 pesos.”

Horses grazing in a field of palm trees in Mexico.
A crowded beach.
A historic building in Loreto, Mexico.

Low Occupancy

This sailing had the lowest occupancy of any post-pandemic cruise I’d taken so far.  It felt like that time in high school I finally got invited to a party only to show up at the address to discover I was the only one there.  Except for the person who answered the door.  Who was my English teacher!  She felt sorry for me and invited me in for a game of scrabble over some herbal tea.  Which, let’s face it, was more my speed anyway.

An Unwelcome Stowaway

The aft pool on ms Zuiderdam with a graphic depicting the covid virus wearing legs and a disguise.

This was my first post-pandemic cruise with a noticeable Covid presence.  That probably had something to do with the low occupancy I mentioned above (we were sailing just as the Omicron wave was getting bad).  Midway through our sailing the captain came on the intercom to announce that we would not be allowed by local authorities to dock at our next scheduled port due to having too many positive Covid cases onboard among both crew and passengers.  And shortly after that we saw three of our neighbors on deck 8 get whisked away by hazmat-suited crew members (presumably to quarantine), never to be seen by us again. Covid safety protocols were also the strictest they’d been on any of my post-pandemic sailings. Our cruise was 100% vaccinated, testing was required 48 hours or less prior to boarding, and masks were required at all times indoors unless eating or drinking (that was a new one for me).

During our sailing the CDC also released their new advisory on cruising – recommending against cruising, even for those fully vaccinated. “Too late,” I shrugged before belly flopping into the hot tub.

An Insignificant Medical Event

I characterize it as an “insignificant” medical event because that’s how mom wanted it characterized, but I’ll let you be the judge. She cracked several ribs as the result of being violently shoved into a poll on a bus in La Paz when I woman lost her footing and fell into her. She only bothered to tell me about it under blood oath with a promised penalty of death if I told Mr. Cruise or H or made even a small fuss. But she was clearly in a lot of pain for the remainder of our sailing. I think the lessons here are to pack lots of Tylenol, purchase travel insurance (because flukey, unexpected injuries can happen), and abandon stoicism in favor of sympathy desserts: “I’m in a lot of pain here, can you run up to the buffet and grab me a crepe and some ice cream?” Mom’s still working on that last one, but I mastered it years ago.

We’ll get back to the crepes in a second, when I talk about what I loved about ms Zuiderdam. But first, here’s some basic information about the ship:

ms Zuiderdam: The Facts

ms Zuiderdam docked off of Cabo San Lucas in 2022

One of four Vista-class cruise ships, ms Zuiderdam’s maiden voyage was in December of 2002, making her nearly 20 years old. That’s like 100 in cruise ship years which, as it happens, was also the average age of passengers onboard our Sea of Cortez cruise (What? I’m just stating the facts!). She did receive a facelift and a new wardrobe from Chico’s in 2017 (called a “refurbishment” in cruise lingo), so she looks a lot younger from a distance. Over video chat. With a poor connection (same with me – that’s been one huge advantage of working from home during the pandemic).

ms Zuiderdam can welcome 2,272 passengers at maximum capacity (meaning we were about 2,000 passengers short on our sailing) and employs and houses 842 crew members (800 of whom were in quarantine on our sailing). She has 15 decks, 11 of which are available to guests, (and 7 of which are currently being used for quarantining positive Covid cases). I’m kidding about all commentary in parenthesis, of course – I’m just teasing ms Zuiderdam because I’m really nervous about asking her to be my Valentine’s date.

But perhaps a better approach would be to discuss what I love about her.

What I Loved about ms Zuiderdam

Wide, Wraparound Promenade Deck

A sunrise view from the Promenade deck on ms Zuiderdam in 2022.
Cabo San Lucas seen from the Promenade deck of ms Zuiderdam in 2022.
A child and an adult walking the Promenade deck on ms Zuiderdam in 2022.

This isn’t a popular opinion, but I’m not that impressed by the voluptuous, exposed, and glittered up asses, I mean afts, of some of those fancy new Royal Caribbean mega ships. Honesty, they make me a little uncomfortable and bring out the protective mom in me, “Cover up that aft! You’re not leaving this dock until the hem of your shorts makes contact with your knee and your homework is done, missy!”

Call me traditional, boring even, but I’m a promenade deck gal. I fell in love with Holland America several years ago on our first sunrise walk together. And the promenade deck on ms Zuiderdam reminded me, once again, of what I love most about cruising: feeling a deep sense of connection to the earth as I breathe out all the stresses of everyday life and breathe in the smells and sounds and sights of the sea. Plus my twice daily walks helped keep my brain sharp and my endurance up as completed two full laps at .5 MPH while listening to a Christmas-themed audio book: “The Bull Rider’s Christmas Baby.”

P.S. I’m gauging interest in “Prof. Cruise’s Book Club.” Whaddya say?

Mexican Cultural Embassador

By now, you probably have the impression that I’m not real cultured. And you’re right – as my Ancestry.com report confirmed, I’m 100% American Apple Pie. I mean yes, that’s what I ate right before sending in my spit sample, but I don’t think brushing my teeth would have changed the result much: 99% American Apple Pie, 1% Colgate. And I guess that’s why I appreciate learning about other cultures so much and really enjoyed all the programming offered by our Mexican Cultural Embassador onboard ms Zuiderdam. My 9 year-old especially loved the Mexican paper flower class. He did a great job too. You can hardly tell the difference between his paper flowers and the fresh flowers on ms Zuiderdam:

A child making paper flowers.
A child holding up paper flowers next to real flowers.

Yes you can, but we’ll talk about that after he goes to bed. For now, let’s shift our focus to the gorgeous fresh flowers all over ms Zuiderdam.

Fresh Flowers

A large display of flowers onboard ms Zuiderdam in 2022.
Flowers in a bar onboard ms Zuiderdam in 2022.

I’ll save you the trouble, they’re real! Still, you’ll find the fresh flowers all over ms Zuiderdam too perfect and spectacular and will doubt my credibility and grope them anyway: “OMG, they are real!” Say it extra loud to help out the crew member dusting nearby who can check off that square on his “weird and annoying things cruise passengers do” bingo card. And then apologize because now he has to sanitize that vase for the 100th time. And then apologize again after you head back over to smell them: “Oops, forgot to smell them. Sorry about that.”

But seriously, Holland America is known for having gorgeous fresh flowers onboard and you should DEFINITELY smell them, but not before popping one of these (live and learn and prevent others from a Covid scare that really was just allergies):

Royal Delft China

A shrimp cocktail served on a delft plate in the dining room onboard ms Zuiderdam in 2022.
Delft china on display for sale onboard ms. Zuiderdam in 2022.

I love the blue and white Royal Delft china used in the dining rooms on HAL ships. There was even a table set up on ms Zuiderdam with information on how you could purchase some for your home. Note I said “you” could purchase not “we” could purchase. Because being hastily slammed head first onto a moving belt by stressed, overworked baggage handlers as they relocated from the Zuiderdam to Seattle would be the safest phase of their new life with us. Because as soon as they finally stopped longing for steak and lobster and accepted that every night they were going to be defaced by Kraft Mac ‘n Cheese, manhandled by a 9 year-old in desperate need of a good finishing school, and then licked by a geriatric shelter dog with advanced dental disease, they would die the way all beautiful china dies, tragically in a million pieces on the cold floor. Before relocating again to the city dump.

Maybe you live in a more civilized household though. Or just enjoy them while onboard the Zuiderdam like we did.

Music Walk

Two piano players in Billboard Onboard on ms Zuiderdan in 2022.
A violin player on the Lincoln Center Stage onboard ms. Zuiderdam.
Performers at BB Kings Blues Club on ms Zuiderdam in 2022.

With Holland America’s signature Music Walk, multiple specialized music venues located in close proximity, ms Zuiderdam offers the BB King Blues Club, the Lincoln Center Stage for classical selections, and Billboard Onboard for contemporary hits. With musicians this talented, you’ll find yourself saying: “I never thought I liked classical music” or “I never thought I liked blues” or “I never thought I liked that awful screeching crap young people listen to through those alien looking plastic gadgets hanging out of their ears that cause premature hearing loss.” I can just picture my 9-year-old rolling his eyes at that last one. But I almost convinced him I was cool when I took him to the “club” with me on the Zuiderdam. Until I requested a Kenny Loggins song at the piano bar followed by 20 minutes of awkward silence as the two performers frantically searched for the sheet music before finally concluding: “I guess we all have our limits.”

Seriously though, the performers on the Zuiderdam brought the house down with every performance. Try every venue at least once even if you don’t think it’s going to be your jam.

BBC Earth’s “Planet Earth II in Concert”

A partnership with BBC Earth provides Holland America cruisers with theater screenings of BBC Earth programming as well as magnificent concert events that combine live orchestra music with dramatic footage from BBC Earth. On the Zuiderdam we were treated to “Planet Earth II in Concert,” featuring some of the most incredible wildlife footage I’ve ever seen along with live music performed by the “Lincoln Center Stage” performers.

While I may have peed myself a little and traumatized my 9 year-old during some of the “predator vs prey” scenes, I highly recommend you suit up in some Depends and get to this one early for a good seat. It was a highlight of our cruise.

Humanity

Stop shouting, “have some humanity” at cable news and book yourself on the Zuiderdam where you might actually find some. Of course I’m talking about the Step One Dance Company’s interactive dance/video show. What did you think I meant? Don’t you know that cruise ship’s were notorious for brawls long before Covid outbreaks?

I’d seen Humanity shortly after it debuted on select Holland America ships a few years ago and remember loving it at the time. But since then NCL’s full length Broadway shows pretty much ruined the typical cruise ship production show for me. Not that the performers aren’t talented or that I don’t enjoy them – I just wouldn’t pay big bucks to see them at a theater on land like I would Kinky Boots or Jersey Boys. But after “Humanity,” I found myself thinking, “I might actually pay to see that on land.” But then I came to my senses and decided to just book another Holland America cruise to see it again. Don’t miss it if you’re booked on the Zuiderdam! And if you’re not booked on the Zuiderdam, for the love of Humanity, what are you waiting for?

Food Quality

Steak and lobster in the main dining room of ms Zuiderdam in 2022.
Baked Alaska in the main dining room of ms Zuiderdam in 2022.
A colorful rice and vegetable dish onboard ms Zuiderdam in 2022.

Let me start with a story that has nothing directly to do with cruising, but should lend this section on food quality onboard the Zuiderdam some context and credibility. A few weeks back, Mr. Cruise, who does all our household grocery shopping (yes, he’s great, but I’d leave him in a second for a cruise ship captain and he knows it), came home from Trader Joe’s with this giant box of cherry cordials all excited like he’d discovered them on an archeological dig:

A box of Trader Joe's Chocolate Liqueur Cherries.

After teasing him relentlessly…

“Did they card you when you bought these…to make sure you were over 90?”

“I wondered where all the great-aunts of the world did their Christmas shopping.”

“Do you have a white elephant party coming up?”

…Mr. Cruise wondered why he had never been gifted a box of these by an elderly relative and concluded that they were gross. We tried to pawn them off on our son so we could hog the good desserts and also to get him a little drunk so he’d go to bed earlier, but he didn’t like them either. So they sat up in the cupboard for a week before I discovered them in the garbage can.

Outraged, I dug them out (it doesn’t count as dumpster diving if it’s within your own home, right?) and stuck them in the kitchen junk drawer intending to eventually eat them because: Bad chocolate is better than no chocolate! And you NEVER throw away food.

Here’s photo evidence should you think I’m making this story up:

A kitchen drawer full of junk and gold-wrapped chocolate cherries.

Anyway, I tell you all this to illuminate the difference between Mr. Cruise and I when it comes to food and especially cruise ship food: I’m a quantity over quality gal and will eat just about anything and he’s a quality over quantity guy and regularly throws away candy. Men are from Mars, etc.

So while I love all cruise ship food and low key hate that the crew serves you in the buffet on Holland America because I prefer hearty portions (“fill my plate like you were in charge of carb loading an NFL team”), Mr. Cruise is picky, what millennials call a “foodie.” He once spit out a bite of fish into his napkin in front of his mother-in-law on a Carnival cruise.

But guess what? He LOVED the food, both on the buffet and in the dining rooms, on ms Zuiderdam. So much so that he came home and booked us on a bucket list 16 night Australia/New Zealand cruise on Holland America for this Christmas!

I loved it too, but I eat garbage can chocolate cordials, so take that for what it’s worth. Here are some food-related things we especially enjoyed:

Buffet Desserts

A crew member onboard ms Zuiderdam making crepes in the buffet in 2022.
A child licking an ice cream cone in the buffet onboard ms Zuiderdam in 2022.

The buffet desserts on ms Zuiderdam were some of the best I’ve had at sea. If you like to limit your calories to one dessert per meal (why even bother to cruise!?!), skip the ones in the display case and ask for the “special” desserts behind the counter: Hard ice cream in a giant waffle cone with a bunch of toppings and bread pudding at lunch and crepes and whatever that day’s featured item is at dinner (On crème brulée night in the main dining room, they serve the exact same dish on the buffet – I tried them both to verify. For science!).

Dining Room Breakfast Menu

Criossant and bread pudding in the main dining room of ms. Zuiderdam in 2022.
Eggs benedict onboard the Zuiderdam in 2022.
Waffles and veggie sausage on the Zuiderdam.

Holland America has the best and most extensive breakfast menu of any line I’ve sailed (and I’ve sailed them all, minus Disney and the luxury lines). You can preview the menu HERE. I especially loved the croissant and bread pudding (I ordered one every morning as an appetizer), the passion fruit yogurt, aloo masala (they have a great selection of international offerings) and the veggie sausage (pictured with the waffles above – I’ve never seen it on another line). Mom and Mr. Cruise liked the smoked salmon omelette and my son liked all the “griddle” selections.

Dive In

A hot dog and fries from Dive In onboard ms Zuiderdam in 2022.
Dive In
A burger, a hot dog, and fries from Dive In onboard ms Zuiderdam in 2022.

Dive In on Holland America ships has long been my favorite burger joint at sea mostly because I feel like the name gives me permission to launch myself head first into my food without accounting for manners or decorum. But also because they have the best options for humans who think themselves rabbits. Vegetarians I mean, not anything creepy (although I’ll admit that some find vegetarians an odd breed). I was even more excited to try it again on ms Zuiderdam because I’d read that the vegetarian options at Dive In had expanded recently with the addition of the Beyond Meat patty available as a substitute for any burger option (in addition to the two veggie options already on the menu) and the Beyond Brat for any of the hot dogs. I was also excited to see what Mr. Cruise thought of Dive In so I could pass along his perspective to my non-veggie readers.

Now normally Mr. Cruise agrees with me on just about everything because, happy wife and all that. But I could tell he genuinely loved Dive In because I kept catching him pre-lunching (sneaking a secret first lunch before we met up as a family for real lunch). And the only reason I caught him was because I was doing the same!

Among the four of us, I think we ordered everything on the menu (available HERE) at least six times and even tried a few off menu items: “3X3 animal style please!” (we had to explain what the heck that is, but once we did, they were happy to accommodate). And we loved it all! Definitely give it a try as a first lunch, second lunch, third lunch…just Dive In!

Room Service

A room service tray sitting on the bed of a cabin onboard ms Zuiderdam in 2022.

With the exception of a few specialty items, room service is still complimentary on Holland America and there’s a great selection. You can view the menu HERE.

Guest Services

It’s a Bird! It’s a Plane! It’s…Yuan from the Guest Services desk here to save Christmas! If you read my article, “What Kind of Idiot Brings a Skateboard on a Cruise Ship?” (I totally understand if you didn’t read it because you’ve been following my blog for some time now and knew the answer right away), you already know the story. But I want to give an extra shout out to Guest Services, and especially Yuan, for working with ship security to make sure my son was able to open his skateboard (the only thing he asked Santa for) on Christmas morning and allowing us to check it out while in port so he could take it for a spin (or more accurately fall twice and then give up and make me carry it around all day).

If you’re booked on the Zuiderdam, be sure to say hello to Yuan from “skateboard mom.”

Friendly Crew

Yuan wasn’t the only hero crew member on the Zuiderdam. Our waiter noticed my son was in a bit of a funk one night and performed this trick for him…

He even taught him how to do it and gave him the prop. He’s still performing it for his friends and it makes them laugh every time! But while we’re on the topic of cranky kids…

Best Spots on the Zuiderdam to Hide from your Kid

What I meant to say was, “best spots on the Zuiderdam to curl up with a good book.”

The Crow’s nest is the perfect spot to read or not read because you’re too distracted looking out the large wraparound windows for the whales everyone sees but you. Speaking of not finding things, I loved the Crow’s Nest, but I have to admit that it took me 5 days of a 10 day cruise to find it.

If you can’t find it or if it’s too crowded (get there early or go at off times – it’s a popular spot among the higher IQ crowd), try the Gallery Bar as an alternative. It’s a cool spot and deserted during the day with no views to keep you from finding out if the rodeo cowboy who has lived twenty-seven carefree years as a bachelor is ready for a family.

Best Spots on the Zuiderdam to Send your Mom to Read with your Kid so you can Drink

A child and a grandmother reading together on the Promenade deck of Ms. Zuiderdam.

The comfortable loungers on the Promenade deck are also a wonderful spot to read (or to send your mom to read with your kid so you can drink).

Loyalty Gift

Two delft tiles

We received these gorgeous Delft tile coasters in our cabin as a loyalty gift from the Mariner Society. I feel kind of bad that mine is currently hanging out in the kitchen junk drawer with the cherry cordials.

Three Things I Didn’t Love about the Zuiderdam

Decor

A statue of a woman knitting in the theater of ms Zuiderdam.

The first time I saw this ghostly woman knitting in the rafters of the main theater, I joked to my mom, “looks like some of the Halloween decorations got mixed in with the Christmas ones.” But I legit didn’t sleep for 10 nights.

Even though none of the other art on the ship prompted me to use my New Year’s horn as a ghost deterrent, scaring my fellow passengers as I blew it in advance of every blind corner, I wasn’t a fan of the Zuiderdam’s overall style and decor. While my mom would disagree, she found some of the artifacts fascinating, I found the ship drab and outdated. Did that affect my experience onboard or give me pause in sailing on the Zuiderdam again? Nope! With unlimited funds and no kid, I’d pop some Tylenol PM, retire my horn in favor of a garlic necklace, and stay onboard in perpetuity.

Cold Pools and Theater

This being my first warm-weather cruise since the pandemic (my prior three had all been to Alaska), I was looking forward to complaining about the heat and cursing my northern European skin as I lathered on 12 layers of sunscreen only to lather on 12 layers of Aloe Vera later that night despite my best efforts. I was also excited to hit the pool with my son who just learned how to swim. While the first part generally met my expectations, the pool was so. cold. It’s no coincidence that these polar bears are the only ones near it:

The main pool on ms Zuiderdam feating two polar bears with text that reads: Today's Headline: Polar Bears Rescued for Melting Arctic Sea Ice Relocated to Better Conditions Onboard the Zuiderdam.

Instead of a spirited game of Marco Polo, we played “who can dip their toe in the furthest without freezing to death.”

The main theater, in addition to being haunted, was also so. cold. Was this an attempt at encouraging social distancing (freeze them out to avoid a super spreader event) or were the lighting and sound engineers up in the booth doing it for shits and giggles: “Check out this woman wearing socks as gloves.” (Yes, that was me.)

Pro Tip: Pack a wet suit and a wool sweater.

Overall Changes to HAL

The "port to table" set on ms Zuiderdam.
Port to Table

These aren’t necessarily specific to the Zuiderdam (although some might be – I just don’t have enough recent cruises on HAL under my belt at this point to know…others please chime in in the comments), I noticed some unwelcome changes since my last cruise on Holland America. No more Opera’s Book Club (I mean, I’m ready to step up to fill this void, just say the word!), no more America’s Test Kitchen (replaced by “Port to Table” led by one of the ship’s chefs and the cruise director), and the EXC lectures were now presented by the cruise director instead of outside experts from various fields. These were some of the things I loved most about my first few cruises with HAL and I was sad to see them gone. Don’t worry though, I’ll live to cruise another day. Or days. Many, many days. And many of them still with HAL.

With an acknowledgement that change is inevitable and wanting to conclude on a positive note, I’ll leave you with this photo of my family, happily together cruising again, and a wish for a happy, healthy 2022 full of cruises!

Prof Cruise, her son, and her husband wearing Happy New Year hats onboard the Zuiderdam

And with that…

Class Dismissed.

Homework (10 points): Explore all the Holland America menus I collected, read my full Zuiderdam cabin review, and check out my review of Brunch at Pinnacle Grill. And don’t forget to subscribe to the blog (scroll up to the top right if on a computer or keep scrolling down if on a mobile device) and follow Prof. Cruise on your favorite social media sites:

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6 Responses

  1. Joan says:

    Boarding the Zuiderdam tomorrow; someone posted this in a Facebook group and I LOVE IT! I love your humor – thanks for taking the time to post. Cheers!ua

  2. Joan Qualls says:

    I found Yuan and telling her Hello from you made her day – she was all smiles and told mer her end of the skateboard Christmas story – she asked me to say hello to you for her 😀

    • Prof. Cruise says:

      Oh my gosh, this is awesome! This made my day too! Thanks so much for telling her hello for me! These connections are one of my favorite part of cruising. I hope you had an amazing time on the Zuiderdam!

  3. Joan McGee Qualls says:

    1 night down, 13 to go!

  1. February 9, 2022

    […] like Homer, Anchorage (proper), and Kodiak and this last 10-night Sea of Cortez sailing on the Zuiderdam, again visiting some very uncommon ports, this time in Mexico: La Paz, Loreto, Guaymas, and […]

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